Day two of the 2023 BNM Summit is originating once again from Vanderbilt University’s Student Life Center in Nashville, TN. We’re keeping you updated on news, key information, and interesting perspectives shared on stage by our speakers. BNM editor Garrett Searight will be updating this column throughout the day as each session wraps up, until the show is over, so be sure to check back multiple times to avoid missing anything important.
Also, make sure you’re following us on Twitter/X at @BNMStaff. We’ll be sharing photos, video clips from the stage, and backstage conversations inside the Core Image Studio green room courtesy of our friends at Steve Stone Voiceovers so be sure to follow along.
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Barrett Media President Jason Barrett welcomed folks back into the room, thanking sponsors for their support of this year’s show. That was followed by an announcement of the BNM Top 20 of 2023 coming out in mid-December, and plans for the next Barrett Sports Media Summit in March 2024. After the promotional items were done, Barrett set the scene for the day by highlighting the three key areas of focus for today’s show; Business, Future, and Ideas. He explained how they connect to the upcoming sessions before pivoting to the first session of the day, a deep dive into the art of interviewing.
9:10-9:45 = The Art of Interviewing presented by:
- Jason Barrett – Barrett Media
Barrett showcased some of the teachings of interviewer John Sawatsky.
The best questions are open, neutral, and lean. It gets people in a mood to share information. Also, good television or radio doesn’t mean it was a good interview.
These are the seven deadly sins of interviewing.
No Query
Not even having a question or making a statement to a guest is a problem. Just having a big guest doesn’t mean it’s great content.
Double Barreled
What do you think happens when you ask a guest two questions? They only answer the one they want to answer and avoid the tougher question. If you offer an “off ramp”, your interview will take it. Your subject will take the path of least resistance.
Overloading
Overloading is basic double double barreling. Rapid fire questioning, and asking several questions without allowing the guest to answer.
Remarks
Most hosts have the idea that they have to show the guest how much they know. That’s not the case. Your job is to ask a question to get information from your guest. Your subject should be reacting to your statements
Trigger Words
These can often lead to great television or radio, but can be bad for the interview. You still have to show respect and get great answers without triggering your guest.
Hyperbole
Hyperbole is great in a monologue, but not in an interview. If you listen to your shows, and you really care about the quality of content, you can hear hyperbole often in interviews that don’t advance a topic.
Closed Query
Asking yes or no questions. It can be the worst question in an interview. It shows poor planning and leads to poor execution. If you have a great plan, you’ll get great results.
Barrett concluded the presentation by giving tips to program directors on how to manage their talent, which type of questions produce the best results, and what tips they could give to help create better interviewers.
9:45-10:20 = The Marketplace of Ideas presented by:
- Dave Tepper – KOA
- Martha Maurer – KTAR
- Peter Thiele – KZRG
Tepper took the stage first to showcase three promotions KOA has attempted.
He shared the station aired an “alternate broadcast” of the State of the Union address. They called it the “KOA Kast”, and utilized inspiration from the Monday Night Football “Manningcast”.
The station also also put together a strong New Year’s Eve promotion around tickets to Denver Broncos games, which featured targeting to both news/talk listeners and the franchise’s listeners.
The final promotion Tepper discussed was “A Hero’s Thank You”, which features military veterans winning $2,500 in cash. Five sponsors contributor to the money, with five winners receiving the winnings. Hosts and former Denver Broncos help present a suprise to the winners.
Maurer took the stage to share that Bonneville’s purpose is to provide leadership that builds up, connects, informs, and celebrates communities and families.
She shared the Community Impact Spotlight promotion showcased buriness and organization leaders in the Phoenix community. An interview during the morning show then is turned into a web story and social media posts on KTAR.
She continued by noting the station’s Tribute to a Teacher that honored area teachers based on entries by the community. Each month, a teacher is awarded $2,500 and is presented a check in the classroom. A local Toyota dealer completely sponsored the promotion.
The final promotion featured was the “Action Alliance” featured by midday host Mike Broomhead that supports community initiatives that make a difference in the community.
Peter Thiele featured a giveaway that would give away a tornado shelter. An F5 tornado destroyed large portions of his community in 2011, killing 161 people. However, he noted the giveaway was a failure. He shared that despite 65% of their audience being men, the overwhelming majority of the 1,200 entries were from women. Ultimately, actual listeners of the station were not entering the contest. They tried the giveaway again the next spring, and entires were cut in half. He joked men weren’t interested in the giveaway because they want to watch the tornado and aren’t preoccupied about having a potential place to avoid the storm.
He continued by showcasing the KZRG Morning News Watch Happy Hour, where once a month the morning show does a live appearance at a local restaurant or bar and meet with every table in the location.
The final promotion was a $500 a week giveaway to local listeners. The standard “enter a keyword” and “listen four times a day” promotion. Thiele shared that several of the winners brought gifts to the station when they came to claim their prizes because the station’s hosts had built such a personal connection with its audience.
10:20-10:55 = The Digital Dilemma presented by:
- Tim Clarke – Audacy
- Jeremy Sinon – Hubbard Radio
- James Derby – Federated Media
The panel was asked to describe what they view as digital.
Sinon shared that “every department is the digital department, especially in 2023 and beyond” before saying anything in an online world is digital.
Clarke said the word grew in usage to differentiate that segment of content from traditional media, before saying he views the word as fading in usage and will ultimately be obsolete.
Derby says Federated Media views digital as “content marketing”. “I think it really goes back to the phone in my pocket. All of that is centered there,” Derby added.
The purpose of a company’s digital department really isn’t all that different from any other.
“You try to cobble together what you can with what you have,” Sinon said. “We’re trying to build more audiences, period. We say it’s the future all the time, but at some point, we need to realize it’s the present.”
Podcasting continues to be important to companies, and making it work can be a challenge.
“We’ve struggled on the revenue side on the local direct selling side. We sell our stream local direct, and we’ve been really successful, but have struggled on the podcast side,” Derby said, before adding his company asked everyone in the organization if they’re interested in hosting a podcast. 40 of the 120 full-time employees responded they were interested. He shared that endorsem*nts of radio hosts haven’t carried over to their individual podcasts, which was unexpected.
Generating revenue in that space is important, and Clarke said he knows Audacy has scale, which helps, but there’s a balance.
“We have that benefit of having that national presence, but we need to think about where we can generate meaningful audiences. A great idea for an original podcast can come out of any newsroom, and that’s the benefit we have. That great idea for an original podcast that tops the charts could come out of any newsroom. The feed is the goal, right? If we can create a feed of meaningful subscribers, that’s going to be worth a lot in the long run.”
Podcasts migrating to YouTube has become more frequent, and the panel agreed if your podcast isn’t on the platform, you’re missing an opportunity. 24% of Coleman Insight responders said that not all of their favorite podcasts are available on YouTube.
Sinon noted that the CPM payments from video are simply more than audio CPM payments, so companies and creators are missing out on revenue by not putting their podcasts on YouTube.
Clarke argued that he’s not a big fan of simply pushing listeners to YouTube because there’s not a gigantic benefit to companies.
“We need to make our content available when they want it and how they want it,” Derby concluded.
The panel did agree that every station needs a video strategy.
“People are searching for content constantly. YouTube may be the best discovery engine out there,” shared Sinon. “If you’re just taking the YouTube pennies, it’s not the best thing for us, but the discovery is. You have to be careful how you play the game, but it exists and you have to play in the space because people live there.”
“YouTube is a great sampling opportunity for audiences that haven’t completely invested in our brands,” Clarke continued. “Video is hard. It’s much easier to create great audio than it is to create great video. We don’t always need to do Emmy Award winning production, but I would think deeply about the ‘how’, and particularly in news, and I would think about how we do it scrappier and more efficient in time to help our brands.”
The panel argued that there isn’t a one-stop social media shop.
“I think a lot of it depends on the format. We try to live everywhere, but we focus on where our audience is going to be living most,” Derby said.
“There’s an opportunity in accessing with younger news consumers. You have to force rank based on the resources you have, and not do all five in poor way,” added Clarke.
“They all matter,” Sinon said of social media platforms. “If your brand doesn’t exist on that platform, you don’t exist. They’re not all the same, and we have to utilize the resources best we can, and it’s not easy, but if I had to pick one, I’d pick TikTok. I mentioned YouTube as a great discovery engine, but TikTok is right there.”
11:05-11:40 = News/Talk Sales Opportunities and Advertiser Challenges presented by:
- Pierre Bouvard – Westwood One/Cumulus Media
Bouvard shared five key take always for the news/talk industry.
Spoken Word Audio Deserves a Premium CPM
Social media has the least attentiveness from media consumers, while spoken word is at the top of the list. Radio is the least-skipped advertising mechanism. Plus, 51% of consumers seek out spoken word content to learn something new.
Your Stations Need a Podcast Strategy
In 2017, 4% of ad-supported audio listeners in 18+ was spent with podcasts. That number is now 19% in 2023. It is only going to continue to grow. Meanwhile, AM/FM Radio has dropped from 77% to 60%. In 25-54, podcasting went from 5% to 25%, while radio dropped from 73% to 50%.
Double Down on News
“News is a goldmine for your format,” Bouvard said.
66% of listeners 18-34 turn to AM/FM radio when news breaks.
In a media study, the highest-level of credibility and attention was on radio news.
News is the Solution for Brand Safety and Brand Suitability
The Global Alliance of Responsible Media has created benchmarks for advertising and media platforms. Most of the concerns presented by GARM are invalid for radio stations due to FCC guidelines.
A company judges brand safety and brand suitability for advertisers. News, traffic, and weather reports are unlikely to trigger any problems for national brands.
Ask Elected Representatives to Devote a Great Share of Political Advertising to Radio/Spoken Word
Elected officials are often eager to appear in radio interviews. However, only 2.7% of political advertising is spent on radio.
According to Nielsen, radio accounts for 14% of all media consumption. 45% of the population is zero to light television users. However, campaigns use 45% of their advertising budget. 30% of all ads on Georgia television were political in nature in a recent election time.
If campaigns relocated their budgets to an increase to 10% of political ad spending, from 2.7%, campaigns would reach 235,000 more voters at no extra cost.
11:40-12:15 = News/Talk Radio Re-Imagined presented by:
- Mike McVay – McVay Media
- Brad Lane – WCCO
- Drew Anderssen – KRLD
- Charlie Cook – Cumulus
- Gary Kranz – Krantz Media
McVay asked the panelists to imagine what news/talk would like look if it was invented on the stage.
Lane argued that one of the biggest questions would be whether your station is a news station or a talk station. He continued by urging program directors to stop hiring hosts who only talk about politics.
Cook agreed with Lane, saying he’s heard enough about the current President, so hosts need more range than simply politics. He then shared his opinion that news/talk clocks need to be reimagined. “Talk radio stations don’t do a good job of designing clocks for different parts of the day,” Cook said.
Anderssen said the content, hosts, and distribution of talk radio needs reimagined. “We don’t have to be all-politics or all-conservative, we need to be entertaining first,” said Anderssen.
McVay asked what changes the assembled guests had made.
Lane noted a “legendary” moniker can be a double-edge sword, because people have preconceived notions.
“To put hosts on the air that sound and talk about things like my listeners do,” Lane said of his biggest challenges, noting his oldest host is 57 years old. “I continue to go back to that word relevant. I put it in front of our team: ‘Be relevant and be memorable’.”
Anderssen said other formats are also doing good talk radio, mentioning that rock radio hosts are often doing great talk radio. He mentioned Eric Von Haessler of 95.5 WSB is an example of someone doing a non-traditional talk radio program.
“When I came into the business, almost everybody was 21 or 22 years old. The oldest guy in the room was the GM and he was 36, maybe, or the chief engineer. To get more young listeners, we need to bring more young people into the business. It’s not as simple as that, but it makes sense,” said Krantz.
Lane said that depth, range, and storytelling need to matter as much as youth. He shared an anecdote about a midday host who didn’t have the life experience to relate to listeners that didn’t work on WCCO. He continued by noting that pairing a younger host with a more experienced host will set them up for future success due to the credibility a familiar voice has with the audience and helps bridge the generational gap.
Anderssen added that young voices don’t need to necessarily have a place on the air, but having young people in your station can help keep your demographic younger.
12:15-12:50 = The Shark Tank presented by:
- Gordy Rush – Guaranty Media Baton Rouge
- Tim Wenger – Audacy Buffalo
- David Wood – WIBC Indianapolis
- With special guest sharks Jill Albert of Direct Results, Andy Bloom and Peter Thiele of BNM.
Contestants in the live version of Shark Tank had three minutes to present their pitches to “sharks” Albert, Bloom, and Thiele for why Omaha Steaks should place a $4,000 buy with their News/Talk radio station.
Rush took the stage first. As operator of Talk 107.3, Rush joked that Louisiana is #1 in the obese tailgating demographic. His pitch included using one of his hosts as an influencer for the Omaha Steaks advertising program, calling morning host Brian Haldane the fabric of the Baton Rouge community.
Questions from the sharks included wondering about the social media size of the brand, with Rush saying the station’s morning show streams live on Facebook and YouTube.
Wenger took the stage next. He shared a story of a “catastrophic” snowstorm that was to hit Buffalo on Christmas week, and was worried about having enough coverage for the potential weekend storm. However, many of his hosts and reporters volunteered to spend the weekend at the station while his home became a studio. In total, six employees spent 72 hours at the station in the blizzard that killed 47 people. The only media outlet covering the storm from a studio was WBEN. A man named James was stuck in his car in the blizzard for two days and was rescued after his phone calls with WBEN, responders were able to find him, and the station saved his life. Wenger said if his hosts were going to sell steaks, the audience will buy them because of the pitches from the station’s hosts.
The sharks questioned how long the hosts had been with WBEN, and if they had a history with endorsem*nts. Wenger said one of the hosts has 13 endorsem*nts, and his travel endorsem*nts have improved greatly in recent years. An additional question asked about potential beef consumption in a city known for its chicken wing consumption. Another shark asked about whether or not citizens in Buffalo will continue to grill with the massive amounts of snow in the market.
Wood was the final contestant. He joked that “Hoosier” is “French for carnivore”. Per capita, Indiana has the highest sales of the popular Big Green Egg. He added that morning and midday host Tony Katz has a syndicated weekend show about food, and has written a BBQ cookbook. Katz, who was in the crowd, gave a spec spot of how a potential endorsem*nt would sound on the station.
Questions from the sharks pertained to Wood’s current grill and what fuels it. He admitted he owns a pellet grill. The questions then turned to Katz and his thoughts and feelings on the Omaha Steaks brand. He was then asked his favorite Omaha Steaks product, which he responded the brand has a fantastic filet mignon.
Ultimately, the sharks decided Omaha Steaks is looking for passion, and the pitch from Wenger was the one deemed victorious. WBEN earned the client’s business.
12:50-1:25 = The Keynote Conversation Presented By:
- Ginny Morris – Hubbard Radio
- Julie Talbott – Premiere Radio Networks
When asked about the state of talk radio, Morris said
“It is a format that we have great faith in, for sure. WTOP, to be clear though, is a straight up news station. It’s not a news talk station. We’ve got a female targeted talk station that does really quite well in spite of the fact that it is a relatively small community radio station,” Morris said. “It was product for clients like a university before. And so beyond that, we’re trying to just make sure that we’ve got personality that sounds a lot like talk shows in our music brands as well. Not just a morning drive but afternoon drive. We used to say we need every station needs at least one talent that we can’t afford to lose.”
COVID has completely changed the audio landscape, and Morris said it’s important to capitalize on the shifts and for stations to market themselves.
“The audio marketplace is more fragmented than ever before. It’s going to be more fragmented a year from now than it is today. But brands need to market in their markets. 25 years ago, you couldn’t drive down a highway or a side road without seeing competitive radio stations reminding listeners but they’re there. We don’t remind listeners that we’re even an option anymore. We’ve got dedicated marketing dollars in all of our markets and I think if all the companies were able to do that we would have a much more robust business than we do today,” remarked Morris.
“And then with COVID, people went home and their lives changed and their habits changed and now we can invite them back. Remind them that we’re there. And if I could wave a wand and make anything happen, it would be that the larger companies would invest in promoting brands, because I don’t think promoting the industry per se is anything that would resonate with the consumer and people they relate to the tailor, they relate to the brand they relate to the personality of a radio station industry per se.”
AI has become a hot-button issue in the broadcasting space, and Talbott argued the industry shouldn’t be intimidated.
“Just don’t be scared of it. I think that anything new, our natural instinct is to be fearful. We can’t be and I think that our industry has consolidated to a state where I think we’re at a — we’re running very efficiently, let’s say it that way. And every person I have on my staff, they need help. They need the help in every possible way,” Talbott said. “And if I can help support them in a way that doesn’t affect negatively our product. Let’s go for it, let’s use it, let’s try it, let’s experiment. If we experiment internally, and we don’t like it, we can get rid of it. But don’t be scared.”
The topic of radio’s placement in dashboards of automobiles has a chance of shifting in the future, and has been bandied about. Talbott argued that Ford’s motivation for removing in-dash radio’s was not about removing news/talk stations as much as they wanted to be in the subscription business and force owners to pay for radio. She said the way to ensure radio remains in cars is simple
“You just got to keep putting out the best product we have so people will keep wanting to have us,” Talbott said of keeping AM/FM radios in automobiles.
Barrett asked the pair if there would ever been a future for liberal talk programs.
“I thought Rush Limbaugh was popular because he was entertaining, not because of what he thought or said,” Morris said. “If someone can come on the scene with a similar talent, they’ll be popular.”
Talbott balked at the idea that Premiere Networks wouldn’t syndicate a left-leaning show. “I would absolutely put on a show if there was a great host. If I heard someone I thought was terrific, I’d absolutely put them on.”
1:25-1:35 = Closing Comments
Barrett concluded the conference by sharing with attendees that ultimately the success of the industry relies upon coaching and managing people. We get caught up in numbers and winning the next quarter, but this business is about people.
He added that the industry needs to commit to having a stronger presence in the digital space. Putting together a digital strategy is imperative. You have to be everywhere.
The industry is built on relationships and storytellers. The more you can bring people together and create connections, the more business and listenership you’ll create.
